wow, interesting little discussion you guys had going on today, but im not
reading all 55 of em'.

i think the market, with our without govt. action ends up doing its job. US
consumer was 70% of the US economy and 25-30% of the world economy? if that isnt
a bubble i dont know what is. most Americans want a strong USD and they want
their manufacturing jobs back. as we know, you *cant* have it both ways. its a
damned if they do, damned if they dont for the Fed.

id rather bail out BSC (and others), through JPM, than let them fall. they wrote
10 trillion worth of CDS's, which would infect every financial institution under
the sun if they went under. the CDS market, is larger the the *global* economy.
ill repeat that, the entire world economy. So if that market gets frozen because
bear or Merrill go under, then we'll all go under. So if i have to pay higher
gas prices, thats ok with me (i have a hybrid and ride my bike a lot so...), and
if i want to complain about high food prices ill write my congresswoman about
corn ethanol which has more to do with soft commodities than currency hedges
i.e. gold, oil.

but back to my point about bubbles, the market will squeeze them out one way or
another. if our goofy govt. thinks sending us $300 again will save the system by
us spending money, then the market will purge out the excess of the US consumer
on its own. just like the piper, it will happen one way or the other.

Dave,

I appreciate your "coming back at me" because it simulates my mind and
makes me look at where my thinking is flawed. I won't doubt for one second that
this comes down to the individual and their own passion. And I agree with you
100% that self interest groups are necessary to get something of the ground and
running... I just think that millions and millions of people are being held back
by laws, regulations, and teachings of this society and part of it comes down to
who people choose as their leader in any organization, group, or social
situation. I believe that many people are making the wrong choices by choosing
to turn their heads away and let other people do stuff for them. Let someone
else go create something, let someone else profit off of only their idea....
"You can't see the train coming despite standing on the tracks."

I really liked what you said.... in essence, I was pretty much agreeing with
your initial post... at least that is what I hoped for you, and others, to see.

I was just trying to give my opinions on "why" I thought this was....

Again I didn't mean to make this a personal attack on your or anyone else that
doesn't necessarily stand in the position to make something change.... I just
wanted to get some reaction and comments to my ways of thinking.... We seem to
agree on a lot of things.

I can agree to disagree on others. I have no problem with that at all. I hope
that makes sense... I'm sure I have contradicted myself many times throughout
this argument... Without an argument there is no battle. There is only one way,
and one way only. This is the direction I believe our country is heading if we
don't pick the right leaders..... Whether it be politics, business, work, play,
athletics, etc. People need to stop turning their head.

They need to wake up.

-Kurt

Kurt, where there is no self interest, there is no success! Because the heart
is just not in it! You're denile of self interest is the perfect example of the
failure you're expressing! I'm leaving you to think on that one on your own.
It's been fun challenging myself to keep coming back at you! But, at some
point, it has to be said that the reality is not what you have been told, but
what you decide to accept. How did this site get here? It started as a picture
in someone's mind. Thus, our imagination shapes our reality! How many
'meetings' do you think it took to get this site off the ground? You think
James got everything he wanted? Don't now switch to the educational system for
blame and excuse! It's you, baby, you and only you! Look to you! You are it,
buddy. That's life! Can 'you' accept that?

In The Trick Top Hat, President Hubbard, a woman, promotes a scientific approach
to the improvement of life, offering rewards to anyone who can design a robot to
do their job or develop methods to prolong life. Eventually Unistat becomes a
Utopia. She makes the whole law system into three different laws: victimless
crimes, which have no punishment; monetary crimes or some such thing, which
involve debt and payment; and serious crimes, such as murder, which result in
being sent to Hell, a place like jail but not quite. It's encased in laser
shielding and is like a primitive world all its own. It is, in fact, the State
of Mississippi. The original Pocket Books edition of "The Trick Top Hat"
contains many passages, some sexually explicit, that are not included in later
editions, including the Dell softcover. Much of this material first appeared in
Wilson's earlier novel, The Sex Magicians, published as porn by Sheffield House
in 1973

This again goes back to my idea about fundamentals in this current market, a
response to your initial question in the first place.

Everyone is trying to look the fundamentals and charts, facts and figures,
surveys and statistics. Well the underlying just doesn't seem to fit with the
current market conditions we have right now.

You listen to the boys that have been around for 30-40 years and they are
baffled. They have no idea what is going on right now. Well they do, they just
can't support it. I watch these guys and gals come on TV every single day, every
single night, and all weekend and give their views on the market. It is simply
absurd to see the uncertainty and some of the reasons these guys are giving as
to where they think the market will go.

I tell ya what, I'd rather just flip a coin.... except in this market, It is
Heads I win, Tails you Lose!

-Kurt

Bingo STEVE! Maybe, just maybe this isn't about politics or the corporate
world!

MAYBE it is a flaw in the education system of America! Yet who has the power to
change this? In my mind, it IS politicians, corporations, and government because
they control the capital necessary to change things. Ideas can only go far. You
need money because there is no such things as a free lunch in this
society!!!!!

I HATE the schooling system in America.... Want proof? I graduated high school
in three years, and could graduate college in 3.5 as well. I won't just so I can
enjoy myself a bit more and work on another business plan I have.

My view of the reason why is so that someone else could benefit. Instead of the
larger group, it is a special interest group or a specific corporation,
individual, etc.

This is where my whole babbling came from to begin with.

That is my response to why instead of why not.

If I am wrong, please correct me. I spent a great deal of time studying politics
and public policy in economics. It is all about the payoff.

The essay which follows it, "The Four-Fold Path," is a partial and tentative
answer to the
question which I have been asked most often when speaking to students: what can
a person
do to change the educational system? I've included the article because I thought
it might
be useful but I have some doubts. Students who ask "What can I do?" usually
aren't ready.
When they're ready, they don't need to be told what to do.

http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0303critic/030301studentasnigger.html

I would love to see the other side of the argument... I'm not trying to stop you
from giving your opinion.... Please do.

I'm just giving mine and writing them as they come up.... I tend to forget
things unless I write them down. Personal weakness. My apologies...

"Ours is not to reason why.......ours is to do and die"